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guess it's a geek day

Posted on 2003.04.15 at 23:34
Mood: pensivepensive
Music: anthony rother - nacht der goetter
when presented with the dilemma of a secondary 20gb hard disk containing mp3s and ~500mb of free space, i unfortunately couldn't rationalize another hard disk at the moment-

i remembered scott posting about the .ogg format a while back-

i ended up finding and downloading the litexmedia audio conversion wizard (2nd from the top).

decent enough software; after playing for a couple hours, i've found that selecting "4.00" on the 1-10 quality out setting leaves room for mp3 quality up to 192kb/s, while letting the ogg's variable bitrate compress where it can; this almost always results in a file between 10-30% smaller than a fixed-rate mp3 with no discernible loss of quality through my sblive-platinum and mdr-v700 headphones. (layman's terms: it sounds good enough.)

after a day and a half's worth of conversion efforts, i've got an extra gig free on the drive now... & i'm nowhere near done. good stuff, i recommend it. just don't go below 4 on the quality setting or you'll start to hear high-end warble.

winamp plays this shiz already. drag-and-drop, just like you always did.
for other platforms, see the vorbis.com link above.

*points emphatically*
CONVERT.
whee!

Comments:


Julian Bashir
julianbashir at 2003-04-15 23:54 (UTC) (Link)
If you want smaller files but is still mp3 compatible, did you try mp3Pro by Thomson Electronics?? There is an mp3Pro plugin for WinAmp as well. I don't if .ogg is a completely different format completely.
Generation Y's Howard Beale
dk at 2003-04-16 12:37 (UTC) (Link)
i haven't- do you need the plugin to play mp3pro files in winamp, out of curiosity?
Julian Bashir
julianbashir at 2003-04-16 13:31 (UTC) (Link)
No, you don't need the plugin to listen to an mp3encoded audio file on WinAmp but you won't get the benefit of listening to the higher quality of sound coming from a 64 kpbs mp3Pro encoded sound file. In other words, it would sound just like a regular 64 kbps mp3 file without the "SBR" enhancement. The plugin is free though.
betternewthings at 2003-04-16 04:15 (UTC) (Link)

EEW!

Going from one lossy format to another lossy format will *always* result in signal degredation!

If you're going to rip OGG, rip from source!
Colonel Angus
scosol at 2003-04-16 11:33 (UTC) (Link)

Re: EEW!

ive heard that but i dont believe it-

mp3, ogg/vorbis, and almost all other lossy audio compression schemes work on psychoacoustic models

meaning- they take the source data, figure out which of it you actually hear when you listen to the song, and throw out the rest.
vorbis is "better" than mp3- essentially it catches thangs that *could* be thrown out that mp3 misses.

so- going from 128k mp3 to 64k vorbis should sound exactly the same as going from wav to 64k vorbis

There's obviously no point to going from 128mp3 to 192vorbis; or even 128kmp3 to 128kvorbis.

But- at the end of the day- 128kmp3 has largely been considered ~cd-quality- and it is what the vast majority of things are encoded at-
so (as i have done) by converting them to 64kvorbis you lose no quality VS wav->64k vorbis.

(yes yes, i know on the vorbis site they *specifically say* that you should not do this and that it givesd poor results; but read between the lines a little- it's there only to shield them from the RIAA etc- because they specifically tell people to only use it on CDs (that they presumably own))

betternewthings at 2003-04-17 08:07 (UTC) (Link)

Re: EEW!

mp3, ogg/vorbis, and almost all other lossy audio compression schemes work on psychoacoustic models

Algorithmically different psychoacoustic models.

On an ogg site somewhere I can't recall someone babelfished the two formats by going back and forth between them, and the degredation increased every time in *both* directions.

vorbis is "better" than mp3- essentially it catches thangs that *could* be thrown out that mp3 misses.

If the source MP3 has already done the signal smoothing, what good does that do you?

Colonel Angus
scosol at 2003-04-17 09:11 (UTC) (Link)

Re: EEW!

> On an ogg site somewhere I can't recall someone babelfished the two formats by going back and forth between them, and the degredation increased every time in *both* directions.

Hmmm I'd be interested to see that- they just went back and forth at the same bitrate over and over?
And how did they determine "degradation"?

> If the source MP3 has already done the signal smoothing, what good does that do you?

At the same bitrate? nothing at all.
Generation Y's Howard Beale
dk at 2003-04-16 12:36 (UTC) (Link)

Re: EEW!

Going from one lossy format to another lossy format will *always* result in signal degredation!

i gotta back scott up here- in theory, you're right- but there's a threshold at which ogg stores all necessary info while still getting a slight decrease in disk usage.

effectively, i've found this to be with the VBR set to max out at 160 or so; vary rarely will it *need* that much resolution, but when it does it has it, and the rest of the time it settles down to about 110; if most of the file consists of the latter behavior, compression rate gets as high as 40-50%.

If you're going to rip OGG, rip from source!

i know you don't really think i have the source for all of my mp3s.

uhm, cuz, they're mixsets recorded from european radio, and legal downloads from epitonic, (back when they were good)- of course. :)
betternewthings at 2003-04-17 07:57 (UTC) (Link)

Re: EEW!

If you're going to rip OGG, rip from source!

i know you don't really think i have the source for all of my mp3s.

uhm, cuz, they're mixsets recorded from european radio, and legal downloads from epitonic, (back when they were good)- of course. :)


Contingent statement. If you don't have source, stick with the MP3!
Zombie Nettie
agenthavok at 2003-04-16 17:12 (UTC) (Link)

im a geek too.. just a different kind...

booga.

just wanted to say what up... and take care.. so yea, hope all is well hommie

end.
Chris
wlltchforfood at 2003-04-18 22:23 (UTC) (Link)
You made my day man, I read your post, and after a really shitty day supervising brain dead first year actors, and then running a changeover, I laughed my ass off. I loved it that I actually understood it. My brain has not collapsed into the world of the actor. I am still a techie. Hope life is good.

Tani
True Neutral Elf Ranger Cleric
ratkrycek at 2003-04-24 20:18 (UTC) (Link)
I just got QuickTime 6 Pro, which can encode/play MP4s... but I dunno if MP4 is backwards compatible with players/burners/etc.

I heard it does create smaller files, though, so if that's all you want...

I did download some .ogg format files awhile ago. Small files, but at the time my Mac didn't know what to do with them. ;)

I wonder if QT 6 is .ogg-aware? Hmm. Something to find out.
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