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hey kevin (& any other car geeks who care to comment)

Posted on 2001.06.28 at 15:38
Music: radio.dk
need your thoughts.
AW11 mr2.
definitely not keeping the stock 4AGE.

swap the bottom end with a later corolla/celica short block, creating a 7AFE (where the expensive part will be the aftermarket pistons/rods)

or

swap in a 4AGE-20v, where the expensive part will be aftermarket EFI?

Comments:


Colonel Angus
scosol at 2001-06-29 14:17 (UTC) (Link)

Insurance

My only advice would be to find out exactly how much the insurance costs change for turbo-na.
If it's not that much, you may as well just get the turbo to begin with.

And... since it's going to be titled to someone with a much cleaner record than you...
Is there any reason you have to be mentioned in the insurance at all?
Generation Y's Howard Beale
dk at 2001-06-29 16:03 (UTC) (Link)

Re: Insurance

i shoulda been more specific- the AW11 mr2 is the first-generation one, the "flying doorstop".

the question here is whether to build a hybrid higher-displacement motor (1.8 instead of 1.6) using the bottom end from a corolla/celica, or just swap in a japanese-spec 20v motor and deal with figuring out engine management.

the hybrid motor would be limited as to what RPM it could hit, but make up for it in terms of torque, while the 20v is your average vtec-like high-rpm screamer...

the classic question, torque vs. hp. (a closer-ratio gearset & shorter final drive will be used either way. =)

what do you think?

(& yeah, good call on the insurance stuff.)
betternewthings at 2001-06-29 15:01 (UTC) (Link)

stock 4ag is actually one hell of a motor

While the red-top does 165hp stock, it does this mainly through more agressive cams and higher compression, and you can get 140HP out of a 4ag with cams, intake, exhaust, and a mild port job.

check out http://www.club4ag.com - the 4ag is easily one of my favorite motors of the early 80's - internals are good for 9k, stock.

One other thing to try if you want to make the motor uber-fast is to take the forged crank from the supercharged motor, and some JE pistons. The crank on the 4AGZ is good for 10krpm!

For total crazy, supercharge a 4ag
Generation Y's Howard Beale
dk at 2001-06-29 15:59 (UTC) (Link)

Re: stock 4ag is actually one hell of a motor

While the red-top does 165hp stock, it does this mainly through more agressive cams and higher compression, and you can get 140HP out of a 4ag with cams, intake, exhaust, and a mild port job.

the only 165hp (stock) 4AG was the silver-top 20v motor. the red-top 16v (found in AE92 corolla gts's, the FWD ones) puts out 135hp stock.

check out http://www.club4ag.com

that's the site i linked to for the 7AGE (increased displacement) article :P

One other thing to try if you want to make the motor uber-fast is to take the forged crank from the supercharged motor, and some JE pistons. The crank on the 4AGZ is good for 10krpm!

well, seeing as the silver-top 20v motors (the 165hp) can be had for $600 (that's long block w/ both manifolds), and it shares the forged crankshaft w/ the 4AGZ motor, that sounds like a much more cost-effective route to me...

For total crazy, supercharge a 4ag

the problem i have with the supercharger on the 4ag is that it seriously limits engine rpm- its maximum speed is 10k rpm before it starts melting seals, and in factory trim it's run at crank_rpm x 1.25; that limits you to 8000rpm on the motor. what good is a crank that can hit 10k rpm if the rest of the engine won't go with it? & if you put on a pulley to increase boost, you limit rpm even more- which would definitely make for a torque-monster, but my point is that blower is run pretty close to its limit in the factory config.

on the other hand, start out with the 20-valve motor, throw a ball-bearing t25 turbo on that and you'll be *way* past a modded 4AGZE, but well within the efficiency range of the turbo. the downside there is either you have to swap all the wiring over from the 20v car as well or use 3rd-party engine management... i'll be opting for the latter, i think.
betternewthings at 2001-06-29 18:14 (UTC) (Link)

yow. i think i blew a shift on that one!

sorry about that. wrote that right after i pulled an all nighter on a paper.

i was looking into the whole turbo 4agz-minus-supercharger thing for an AE86 project a while back, when i watched one episode too many of initial d....

hot tip i've been hearing on some M/C lists for custom EFI is to find four large single-barrel carbs, old ones, gut them, leave the throttles in. (something from an old big four cylinder japanese bike, with blown needles) and use those as your throttle bodies. no idea if it'd work in your case, but oh, i love individual throttles so much!

what brings you to the aw11? rumor goes that the 3s-gte will fit in there.....
Generation Y's Howard Beale
dk at 2001-06-29 20:55 (UTC) (Link)

Re: yow. i think i blew a shift on that one!

sorry about that. wrote that right after i pulled an all nighter on a paper.

haha- toyota's worse than VW with variants of variants. no worries =)

i was looking into the whole turbo 4agz-minus-supercharger thing for an AE86 project a while back, when i watched one episode too many of initial d....

i hear that's a great cartoon. i've gotta get ahold of a few episodes.

hot tip i've been hearing on some M/C lists for custom EFI is to find four large single-barrel carbs, old ones, gut them, leave the throttles in. (something from an old big four cylinder japanese bike, with blown needles) and use those as your throttle bodies. no idea if it'd work in your case, but oh, i love individual throttles so much!

actually, the 20v motor also comes with individual throttle bodies... for fucking $600. doesn't that sound excellent?

here's a pic of one installed in an AW11.
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