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newdefault
Posted on 2008.03.03 at 15:25
Mood: excitedWANT
Music: esc - live @ butcher's ball
Tags:
how did i not hear about this until day-after? i'm slipping.

---

edit: ok i'm listening and the shit is good. this is a return to the layer-upon-layer-upon-layer complexity that i loved about the fragile. i'll send trent $5. i promise.

Comments:


jinni
jinni_x at 2008-03-03 23:27 (UTC) (Link)
I paid $5 for the full version...
Generation Y's Howard Beale
dk at 2008-03-03 23:42 (UTC) (Link)
yeah, i would, but a. lossless just takes up more HD space, 320k is plenty for me, and b. i used to own every halo up through the fragile (yes, including all the singles) till a bunch of them got stolen after a car accident.

trent's gotten enough of my money. he knows i'm a fan.

also c., he was an oink user. to me, that last, more than anything else, is tacit approval to use the darknet.

if i liked it, i probably would pay $5 for the real cd artwork, but i'm trying to keep possessions to the "everything fits in 2 duffel bags" limit... CDs take up a lot of space quick when you like having a big library, as compared to an external 2.5" USB HD.
jinni
jinni_x at 2008-03-04 00:05 (UTC) (Link)
Hehe, I wasn't quite that dedicated, though I have a lot of the earlier singles, particularly the more interesting ones like Sin. I don't really care about the lossless thing, but I figure $5 is a good contribution and I while I would like a poster or some artwork, I don't want the silicone wafer.
I thought the free version only had the first 9 tracks though?
Generation Y's Howard Beale
dk at 2008-03-04 01:23 (UTC) (Link)
the official free version only has the first nine tracks. that's not what i posted above.
sqweak
sqweak at 2008-03-04 00:47 (UTC) (Link)
a. your $5 gives you choice of all 36 tracks in flac, aac, or mp3.
b. so did I, until theft from my car
c. his crimes don't forgive yours.

Dude, he's striking out on his own (Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D was the last record on interscope) and trying a new distribution model after doing a test run with Saul's record. You're a fan, and have been for eons, quit making excuses and pay the 5 bux if for no other reason than to support an independent artist taking a chance. fucker. ;)
Generation Y's Howard Beale
dk at 2008-03-04 01:22 (UTC) (Link)
c. his crimes don't forgive yours.

ok, i'm willing to argue you on this point.

if the artists themselves don't use the "approved distribution mechanism" when it takes up FAR less of their income than it does of the average non-millionare listener... and i'm sure trent wasn't the only one.

for sake of argument, album cost is $15, their net worth is 1 mil, and my paycheck is $1k. if they're not willing to pay .0015% of their net worth for an album, why should i pay 1.5% of my paycheck? that money means more to me than it does to them.

radiohead gave in rainbows away for free (if "whatever you're willing to pay" includes value "free", then that's what i'm willing to pay), via an authorized channel. trent can't afford to do the same?

if i like it, i'll paypal him $5. but this is the change that i personally want to see in the medium. you get paid for producing good music, not just "your next album".

every job i've ever had has been results-oriented, and i don't see why the money i make should be doled out any differently.
sqweak
sqweak at 2008-03-04 20:42 (UTC) (Link)
And i'll argue back. ;)

Do you know trent's usage of oink? I don't...but I *do* know that he has long seeded *HIS OWN STUFF* into the wild when he and the label disagreed about release strategy. Justifying non-payment because he has a membership to oink that *may* have been used to pirate other peoples work is just a slippery slope, that's all I was saying.

Don't get me started on radiohead. It was a fucking publicity stunt, not an advance to the medium. They released a crappy quality copy and asked folks to "pay what you want, it's the full album". Not even a week later the truth came out: the tracks on the physical album were much higher fidelity...and included several things that weren't part of the digital distribution.

Saul's album (which, for the sake of argument, might as well have been NIN with saul on vocals) was a slightly different model. The lower quality mp3s of the entire album were free, with $5 cost for high quality mp3/flac/etc. He lost a lot of money on it, and had some interesting insight into the results

There needs to be a change to the model, but I think you have unrealistic expectations. Do you get to buy clothes *after* you wear them for a bit? Can you buy food (at the grocery store. sure resturants are different, but you still don't have the option of paying nothing for a bad meal) *after* you eat it?

Trent has provided a legal method for you to hear the album, via the 9 track album download for free and an embedded flash player on the site that plays (I think) the entire album. I just don't see how you can rationalize piracy in light of that. :)
Generation Y's Howard Beale
dk at 2008-03-04 21:50 (UTC) (Link)
Do you know trent's usage of oink? I don't...but I *do* know that he has long seeded *HIS OWN STUFF* into the wild when he and the label disagreed about release strategy. Justifying non-payment because he has a membership to oink that *may* have been used to pirate other peoples work is just a slippery slope, that's all I was saying.

alright, tracking you there.

Saul's album (which, for the sake of argument, might as well have been NIN with saul on vocals) was a slightly different model. The lower quality mp3s of the entire album were free, with $5 cost for high quality mp3/flac/etc. He lost a lot of money on it, and had some interesting insight into the results

didn't know about that, thanks for the link.

There needs to be a change to the model, but I think you have unrealistic expectations. Do you get to buy clothes *after* you wear them for a bit? Can you buy food (at the grocery store. sure resturants are different, but you still don't have the option of paying nothing for a bad meal) *after* you eat it?

ok, i think the clothes analogy works best here, particularly because i just yesterday did some shopping to replace the part of my minimalist wardrobe that greyhound lost for me. i didn't get to walk out of the store without paying for anything, but i did get to look first, and try shit on, and decide what i wanted to pay for.

I just don't see how you can rationalize piracy in light of that. :)

NIN Store (support@store.nin.com)
Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 12:30 PM
To: -edited-
Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original
Thank you for your order at nin.com. This is a copy of your receipt for your records. You will receive a separate email with your download link.

$5 download (1) $5.00
Shipping & Handling $0.00
Total $5.00
Transaction # 1753611306

i liked it enough to save a lossless copy.

Edited at 2008-03-05 10:00 am (UTC)
(Deleted comment)
sqweak
sqweak at 2008-03-11 01:03 (UTC) (Link)
creative commons non commercial license

the 9 track first disc (same free download available from nin.com) is the only thing that was officially seeded.
(Deleted comment)
sqweak
sqweak at 2008-03-11 01:09 (UTC) (Link)
you're taking my words too literally. :)

My point was that Jason has long been a fan, and I'm encouraging him to support Trent's gamble on new distribution methods by ponying up the relatively trivial $5.

Considering your profile indicates you to be a content creator (as am I), you're walking a fine line to begin a discussion on morality/legality as it relates to IP. :-/
redstickman
redstickman at 2008-03-04 03:41 (UTC) (Link)
i still have your records! they're getting played out and lots of love. :)
Generation Y's Howard Beale
dk at 2008-03-04 04:16 (UTC) (Link)
wait, how do you have my records? i left them with adam.

well, either way, good. play some fucking techno!
redstickman
redstickman at 2008-03-04 04:18 (UTC) (Link)
not your techno. i wish i had your techno! i have your NIN. :)
your token straight friend
pushshove at 2008-03-04 02:03 (UTC) (Link)
BITCH Y U NO CALL ME?!



I hate your ugly face. See you Thursday.
Katt
nobodylkl at 2008-03-04 18:37 (UTC) (Link)
you really are behind the times if you were a day late... ;P j/k

i'm really happy that he's gotten away from interscope, but i don't think it matters if you pay the $5 or not. more than enough people will spend the full $300 for the deluxe set (which is a rip off imho).
Generation Y's Howard Beale
dk at 2008-03-04 21:32 (UTC) (Link)
more than enough people will spend the full $300 for the deluxe set (which is a rip off imho).

heh, they're already sold out on the ghosts.nin.com site. of course i'm sure at least half of those are on ebay marked up 50% already...
Katt
nobodylkl at 2008-03-05 06:36 (UTC) (Link)
too true... there's already one up for $2000...

how long have you been in seattle? i only noticed it today (can you tell i haven't been on lj much recently?)
Generation Y's Howard Beale
dk at 2008-03-05 09:51 (UTC) (Link)
since i finished training in may.

i'll be back there to housesit for pushshove for the rest of march, but after that i'm back to cali for a month and a half of signal-corps training.
Katt
nobodylkl at 2008-03-05 18:25 (UTC) (Link)
sounds exciting... you should totally go see saul williams march 19th if you like his stuff at all. =)
litttle_a
litttle_a at 2008-03-05 01:03 (UTC) (Link)
send ME 5$ punk
Generation Y's Howard Beale
dk at 2008-03-05 01:23 (UTC) (Link)
bish go make me a sammich!
litttle_a
litttle_a at 2008-03-05 01:31 (UTC) (Link)
pshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
:D
(Deleted comment)
Generation Y's Howard Beale
dk at 2008-03-05 09:53 (UTC) (Link)
intellectual property/DMCA arguments aside, it's a good album and i don't regret paying $5 for the lossless version. listened through the entirety twice today.
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